The WSIS Moon Shot: Celebrating 20 years and crystal-balling the next 20!

Reflecting on Two Decades of Progress: Highlights from the WSIS Plus 20 Forum High Level Event

The WSIS Plus 20 Forum High Level Event marked the 20th anniversary of the World Summit on the Information Society, which began in Geneva in 2003. The event provided an opportunity to reflect on the progress made in leveraging technology for societal benefit, to address the ongoing digital divide, and to discuss the future direction of the WSIS initiative.

**Digital Transformation and Inclusivity:** A key theme of the forum was the role of digital transformation in driving development and prosperity. Dr. Bosun Tijani from Nigeria highlighted the country’s achievements in connecting a significant portion of its population and the potential of digital technologies to enhance productivity across various sectors. He stressed the need to move beyond merely connecting individuals to ensuring that connectivity is meaningful and inclusive, enabling people to contribute to the global economy.

**Global Digital Cooperation:** The discussions emphasised the necessity of global digital cooperation in assisting countries to utilise digital technologies for economic diversification and public service delivery. Dr. Tijani spoke about Nigeria’s efforts to invest in digital public infrastructure, including a significant expansion of its fibre optic network, to improve government service delivery and foster economic growth.

**Standards and Sustainability:** Dr. Thomas Coughlin from IEEE highlighted the critical role of standards in ensuring that technology is reliable, secure, safe, scalable, and efficient. He pointed out how standards are essential for the responsible deployment of emerging technologies like artificial intelligence and quantum computing. Standards were also recognised for their role in supporting sustainable development, particularly in managing e-waste and promoting a circular economy.

**Private Sector Investment:** Maria Fernanda Garza from the International Chamber of Commerce acknowledged the private sector’s role in deploying infrastructure, innovating, and delivering ICT applications and services. She emphasised the need for public policies that encourage rather than deter private sector investment, which is crucial for further economic and social development.

**Civil Society Participation:** Anriette Esterhuysen highlighted civil society’s significant role in the WSIS process, particularly in holding states and corporations accountable and ensuring a human rights-centred approach to development. However, she expressed concerns about a shift from a people-centred focus to a digital-centric approach and the persistence of digital inequality. She called for a renewed focus on people and digital equality within and between countries.

**Future of WSIS:** The idea of “WSIS Plus 30” was proposed as a future goal, with an emphasis on updating the WSIS vision and strengthening its implementation mechanisms. Thomas Schneider from Switzerland discussed the country’s support for the WSIS process and the need for an inclusive and accountable WSIS+ to address current and future digital challenges. The upcoming Summit of the Future and the Global Digital Compact were identified as opportunities to renew the WSIS vision and enhance its implementation mechanisms.

**Noteworthy Observations:** The event highlighted the evolution of the WSIS process, which has seen an increase in participation, with over 120,000 participants from 160 countries, and improved gender balance, reaching 45% female participation last year. The WSIS process has been successful in fostering multi-stakeholder cooperation, but it needs to evolve to meet future needs and challenges.

In conclusion, the WSIS Plus 20 Forum High Level Event was a significant milestone in the journey of WSIS, celebrating the achievements of the past two decades while acknowledging the challenges that remain. The discussions set the stage for a week of dialogue aimed at shaping the future of global digital governance, with a focus on inclusivity, sustainability, and meaningful connectivity. The “WSIS Plus 30” vision calls for a strengthened and more inclusive WSIS process, capable of addressing the opportunities and challenges of our increasingly digital world.

Intro:
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Gitanjali Sah:
Excellencies, ladies and gentlemen, wish you a very good morning and welcome to the WSIS Plus 20 Forum High Level Event. Thank you for joining us today. Over the next five days, we’ll reflect on our journey, tackle digital challenges and shape the future of global digital governance. Let’s dive into our successes, learn from our experiences and envision a more connected, inclusive world. Let’s begin with our high-level dialogue, the WSIS Moonshot. And I’d like to invite our Deputy Secretary General, Mr. Thomas Laminiscus, and the panelists who will be discussing the discussions at this high-level dialogue. Thank you very much. A big applause for our panelists. Deputy Secretary General, I’d like to ask you to start the dialogue.

Tomas Lamanauskas:
I think it’s on, no? Thank you very much, Gitanjali, and thank you, everyone, this morning. From the stage and setup this morning and the dramatic voice that Max started with, I think you’d expect some pop star here greeting you, but it will have to do with me in the beginning. So really, really big welcome to all of you to the WSIS Plus 20 High Level Event and Forum. We’ll have an opportunity to both review what we’ve done in the last 20 years and chart the path for the future. So when we started WSIS in 2003, World Summit Information Society represented a great vision and high ambition. The Internet was growing fast, but only 785 million people had access, 12.4% of the world’s population at the time. The WSIS participants in January 2003, over 11,000 actually of them from 175 countries, knew this was the start of the next era. They were early to recognize the Internet as a public good, a digital public good, one the whole world should share in. The Geneva Plan of Action gave us our framework to bridge the digital divide, enhance digital literacy, and foster sustainable digital development. Two years later, Internet access reached 1.1 billion, 16.8% of the global population. WSIS Part 2, held in Tunis in 2005, rallied over 19,000 participants in the push to create a more inclusive information society. By addressing the challenges and opportunities presented by information and communication technologies, ensuring the benefits of digital are accessible to all, and promoting sustainable development through the technology use. It was a bold statement that a digital revolution must leave no one behind. So how has the revolution progressed? An estimated 5.4 billion people, or 67% of the world’s population, are online in 2024. Digital platforms are key to modern societies and economies. And WSIS action lines are now inseparable from the UN Sustainable Development Goals. Internet, though not a goal as such, is central to SDG 9, about resilience, infrastructure, sustainable industrialization and innovation, and is an enabler for all 17 SDGs. In tandem, countries have created regulatory frameworks, implemented the government initiatives, introduced digital literacy programs, formulated cybersecurity strategies, and adopted inclusive digital development policies. It’s happening with the steady support of ITU, as well as our sister UN agencies, and all our partners in the WSIS process. Ladies and gentlemen, connectivity keeps growing, with fiber connectivity, mobile broadband, and satellites breaking new ground daily. But that still leaves some 2.6 billion people today, the last one-third of humanity, unconnected. And billions more held by weak infrastructure, low on existing digital skills, and a lack of relevant online content in their own languages, keeping them effectively excluded from the world’s accelerating digital transformation. At the same time, we face new challenges and opportunities brought to us by the explosive rise of technologies like artificial intelligence. And we face an imperative to harness them for the benefit of all, while ensuring the risks are managed. That’s where we are at WSIS Plus 20, as we decide on where to go from here. And therefore, I’m honored to moderate today’s first discussion here on the WSIS Moonshot, that will assess how far we have come in 20 years, and which direction we must take for the next 20. Our panel features, in a true WSIS spirit, the multi-stakeholder group, comprising of government, technical community, private sector, and civil society, all key stakeholder groups that are crucial for the WSIS process so far, and will be crucial in the future. So, I’m delighted to moderate this session and the panel with Mr. Thomas Schneider, Director of International Affairs of Ofcom, Digital Regulator here in Switzerland. And you’ll hear more about Swiss role here, I think, in an hour or so, in the next session, especially in the Swiss Forum. Then, His Excellency, Mr. Dr. Basun Tijani, Minister of Communication, Innovation, and Digital Economy from Nigeria. Mr. Thomas Coughlin, 2024 President of the IEEE, Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers. Ms. Maria Fernanda Garza, Chair of the International Chamber of Commerce with us. And last, but definitely not least, computer networking pioneer and human rights defender, Ms. Anriette Esterhuysen, Senior Advisor for Global and Regional Internet Governance and the Association for Progressive Communications. So, it will be one round of quickfire questions, and we’ll get started with the energy of this morning. So, I really hope all the panelists have their coffee shots already, and they’re ready to go. So, we’ll start with Ambassador Schneider. So, Thomas, you’ve been involved in the WSIS from the very beginning in 2003, and you know the WSIS process very well. What do you expect from this WSIS plus 20 event and the WSIS plus 20 as such going forward, please?

Thomas Schneider:
Yes, thank you, and good morning, everyone. As you may know, Switzerland has been a key supporter of the WSIS from its very beginning here in Geneva 20 years ago. And this 20 years anniversary, of course, is a moment for celebration, but also a moment for reflection, because this year and the next will be important in setting the course of all our digital futures. Later this year, we know that we’ll have the Summit of the Future coming up with the GDC, Global Digital Compact, that should outline shared principles for an open, free, and secure digital future for us all. And then next year, we’ll have the big WSIS plus 20 overall review by UN General Assembly. For Switzerland, the GDC is an important tool to help updating the vision of WSIS and to strengthen the WSIS as the structure for implementing the WSIS and GDC vision. Switzerland is convinced that the WSIS, with its vision, but also with its inclusive approach among all stakeholders in their respective roles, that WSIS has not worked perfectly, but it has worked remarkably well. The WSIS architecture, including the leading UN departments, agencies, as well as this WSIS forum, the UN Internet Governance Forum, offer indispensable mechanisms to further mutual understanding and international cooperation and to shape the agenda in all other fora that take decisions on our digital future. The WSIS mechanisms are ideally placed to ensure a meaningful follow-up and periodic review of the Global Digital Compact outcomes and take us all to a next level of global digital cooperation. In this regard, avoiding duplication and making sure that our energies focus on making things happen for the people on the ground are essential for us. We therefore would like to work with you all in order to strengthen the WSIS process and its architecture and update it into a kind of WSIS+, fit for purpose to address the opportunities and challenges of our digital worlds. This means strengthening the multilateral system, including in particular the UN specialized agencies in their facilitating role, the CSCD as a system-wide follow-up, the WSIS forum as the forum to assess program made in achieving the WSIS goals, strengthening the IGF as the biggest global multistakeholder dialogue platform to discuss new and emerging as well as existing issues, and strengthening of the mutual reinforcement of the multilateral and multistakeholder approach. In this regard, the NetMundial guidelines that have been adopted last month in San Paolo could serve as a blueprint to make all processes, be they multilateral or multistakeholder, more inclusive and accountable. So we are proud to be the co-host with the ITU and all the partners of this WSIS20 High-Level Forum and we encourage you all to join our efforts to develop this WSIS+, which will be even more inclusive and accountable and should make sure that all voices of all people are heard in all processes of digital governance. Thank you.

Tomas Lamanauskas:
So thank you very much, Thomas, indeed, for very well summarizing the value of WSIS, but also challenging us to adapt to the new times. And of course, big thanks for Switzerland to being the host of WSIS from the very beginning in 2003, of course, with also the event in Tunisia, but also all these WSIS forums from the very beginning. So big thanks. So with that, we’ll move to Minister Tijani now. So Minister Tijani, Nigeria is a great example of the power of digital transformation to bring development and prosperity to the societies, especially young people. But it’s also, of course, an example of still the way and the road we need to travel to get there. And of course, it’s always very enlightening to talk to you about your ambitious agendas in this regard. But can you also explain how do you see it going forward, how digital transformation can help countries like Nigeria, but also how can global digital cooperation help you in that regard?

Dr. Bosun Tijani:
Thank you so much, DSG. Good morning, everyone. I think 20 years of WSIS is actually a fantastic opportunity to celebrate the gains that we’ve made as a global world in the last years. For a country like Nigeria, I think within that period, we’ve seen nearly 150 million people now being connected, over 200 million mobile phone lines. Like you mentioned, we’ve seen tremendous demonstration of the value of digital technologies and actually lifting society, but also raising the level of productivity across key sectors. Like many economies in Africa, where there’s constant battle and goal of diversifying the economy, I think digital technologies has demonstrated how technologies like that can help lift productivity in agriculture, in public health, and so many other sectors that are critical. But one thing that we’ve also seen as well is the changing narrative around inclusion. Whilst we still have so many people that we need to connect, I think the narrative is changing from connecting the unconnected into ensuring that we’re bringing the opportunities that exist across the world for the benefit of the network. Because I look at the world almost like a network, and the value of a network is truly in the opportunity given to every node that is part of it to contribute to its development. A continent like Africa has got tremendous, tremendous opportunity to help solve many of the challenges that we face in the world today. 60% of the population, over 1.4 billion people under the age of 30. In Nigeria, 70% are under the age of 25. That is the workforce of the future that we’re all seeking and looking for. So there’s a need to truly, truly accelerate opportunities, learning opportunities for these young people to be part of the global economy. And that’s something we’re prioritizing in Nigeria, where we’re now running the largest talent accelerator in the world, training 3 million technical talent. One thing we’re also doing is to accelerate investment in fiber optic network in the country. As you know, we have eight submarine cables already in Nigeria, but only just about 10% of that is being used. Now, the government is investing in 90,000 kilometers of fiber optic cable across the world. across the country, which will make it the third longest after Egypt and South Africa in Nigeria. And I think Thomas mentioned digital governance, which is something that is actually we should all pay significant attention to, because we live in a world today where trust is being eroded. One of the best ways in which we can rebuild trust is meeting our people at a point of their needs. I’ve been visiting Finland and Estonia. You can see what’s being done with the use of technology to actually serve people during life events, whether it’s the period where a child is given birth to, when you register for marriage, or you go to school, or you start a business. Digital technology offers a significant opportunity for us to help improve the way government deliver those services. But we can’t do so if we don’t invest in the digital public infrastructure that you mentioned, if government doesn’t have a clarity around ensuring that we have a whole of government approach to the use of technology. And which is why in Nigeria, again, one of the biggest tasks I’ve been given is to actually build a data exchange system, connecting every part of government, making sure all MDAs share data seamlessly. Of course, taking into consideration security as well. So I think we have a unique opportunity moving forward from what we’ve created. We’ve demonstrated the value of these technologies. Our goal now is to ensure that we can truly, truly leapfrog the application of digital technologies for our collective prosperity.

Tomas Lamanauskas:
So thank you, thank you very much, Minister. Indeed, these are very inspiring words showing how this huge potential of empower young population with digital technologies. But of course, we can only achieve that if we have the right pieces of infrastructure in place. We have physical infrastructure, but we need, as you say, more than that, through the full inclusion, through digital transformation as well. So I think this is exactly the WSIS framework to look at all the different aspects of the digital economy and to make sure that we harness them all. And indeed, Minister, will be great to work with you further in this WSIS forum. And we have a great also working item on submarine cable resilience as well. So it’s another thing how we need and how we as through the WSIS community are strengthening the infrastructure and also empowering everyone. Thanks a lot. So with that, I’m moving to Thomas Coughlin from IEEE. So Thomas, why do you think standards will play such a big role in reaching SDGs, Sustainable Development Goals, and for the future of WSIS, please?

Dr. Thomas Coughlin:
Thank you very much, Secretary General, honorable ministers, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen. I’m honored to be here today and to speak on behalf of IEEE on the 20th anniversary of WSIS. This milestone represents two decades of collective effort to harness the power of information and communication technologies for development, inclusion and progress. As the world’s largest technical professional organization, representing over 460,000 members in over 190 countries, we are dedicated to advancing technology for the benefit of humanity. Our dedicated members develop standards that contribute to creating a better, sustainable future for all. We are witnessing rapid developments in technology with artificial intelligence, quantum computing, biotechnology and more. These innovations have tremendous potential for transforming industries, improving human health and solving complex problems. But these technologies bring new challenges and uncertainties such as ethical dilemmas and privacy concerns, and they also create the need for foundational elements that ensure technology serves the broader societal goals of efficiency, safety and environmental responsibility. Standards enable technologies to work seamlessly together, ensuring that products and services are reliable, secure, safe, scalable and efficient. Standards are the unseen force behind today’s technological innovations and a growing circular economy. In the context of sustainability, ICT standards are vitally important for several reasons. Emerging technologies produce new opportunities for improving energy efficiency and the support to transition to a more sustainable future as energy availability and consumption are some of the most pressing challenges of our time. ICT standards are playing a pivotal role in defining the data center resource use, providing the framework needed to make them more resource efficient and to optimize energy use while providing required services. Standards support the transition to a circular economy where products and materials are reused, refurbished and recycled. Standards for e-waste management, recycling and material recovery ensure that valuable resources are reclaimed, therefore reducing the strain on our environment. Standards create a level playing field for innovation. They enable different stakeholders using a true multi-stakeholder collaborative environment to develop solutions that work together to drive progress towards the sustainable development goals. As we look to the future and YSYS plus 30, the role of standards and the technical community in general will only grow in importance. Emerging technologies hold great potential for sustainable development. However, the responsible deployment hinges on the establishment of comprehensive standards that address ethical, environmental and societal considerations. Standards are the invisible thread that weave together the fabric of our digital society, ensuring that technical advances are aligned with sustainable, inclusive, principled and prosperous future. Thank you.

Tomas Lamanauskas:
Thank you very much, Thomas. And indeed, I think it’s very good to highlight from technical community that we cannot just have a policy discussion, now we need to back up it with a technology. And I really appreciate your very optimistic outlook. I’ve heard you talking about YSYS plus 30, so really looking forward to that. And also I think maybe we need to already have it, have someone in the tagline here, towards the YSYS plus 30. Thank you very much. And now we’ll move to the private sector, to Maria Fernanda Garza. And indeed, Maria, from the private sector perspective, what have been the main achievements and challenges in implementing the YSYS vision and how can we best prepare for the future in people’s century inclusive and development oriented information society, please.

Maria Fernanda Garza:
Thank you, Thomas. International Chamber of Commerce is the institutional representative of more than 45 million companies in over 170 countries. And through a unique mix of advocacy, solutions and standard setting, we promote international trade, responsible business conduct and a global approach to regulation. Our members include many of the world’s leading companies, SMEs, business association and local chambers of commerce. And we were founded in 1919 for over 100 years now. ICC has served as a voice of global businesses across many international organization and multi-stakeholder fora. And ICC was the business focal point for the YSYS process that started here in Geneva over 20 years ago. Since then, business has continued to stay engaged through ICC’s business action to support the information society initiative on the YSYS follow up workstream and convenes here at the YSYS forum year by year to take stock of the implementation of the YSYS action lines and chart the path forward with partners from all stakeholders. There were two main consideration reached at YSYS 20 years ago. First, that information and communication technologies, the internet and digital technologies hold an enormous potential for inclusive social and economic growth. And second, that these potential can only be truly unlocked through multi-stakeholder cooperation between governance, business, civil society and the technical and academic community. These have held true over the years with multi-stakeholder collaboration anchored in the YSYS action lines and the Tunis agenda, continuing to enable partnership to spread meaningful connectivity across the globe. Business takes its role in advancing the global agenda very, very seriously. And we are working with governments and stakeholder communities around the globe to inform and partner for better policy outcomes to serve our shared interests. The private sector has been and continues to be an important actor in deploying internet related infrastructure, innovating and delivering a wide range of ICT applications and services, as well as supporting skilling and capacity building initiatives. It’s on these investments that local and global digital ecosystems have flourished. Sustainable private sector investment will continue to be a principal factor in pursuing further economic and social development. Aligning public policies that promote rather than deter investment in infrastructure, technologies, applications and services is paramount. By enabling participation from all relevant stakeholders, governments can generate policies that are timely, scalable and innovation enabling. While we have come a long way, we still have a lot of work to do. There are billions of people who are waiting for the opportunity to join the human centric, inclusive and development oriented information society that we all envision at YSYS. As we look ahead to the review of the YSYS process and beyond, we must remember the lessons learned 20 years ago and ever since. The multi-stakeholder model is how we will connect everyone and everything to a better future. The YSYS plus 20 review should aim to continue to strengthen, spread and enable this model. And I look forward to discuss further throughout the forum and I wish you all a very productive week.

Tomas Lamanauskas:
Thank you very much, Maria Fernanda. And indeed, you know, we cannot achieve sustainable digital inclusion without private sector investment and private sector energy. And so it’s great to have had private sectors active member of this multi-stakeholder community for 20 years. And we’re looking forward to many years more. Thanks very much. And indeed, now we move to civil society. So, Henriette Esterhoyer-Klausen. So Henriette, civil society has had an important role in YSYS. And can you elaborate a little bit on that role and how it evolved in the last 20 years and what has gone well, what’s not done well so we can learn from it and what you would envisage the role to be in the future. Please, Henriette.

Anriette Esterhuysen:
Thanks very much, Thomas. I think for civil society, the systemic approach of YSYS was immensely useful and powerful. The fact that the action lines delve into particular areas of implementation enabled cooperation with government, at ministry level, at departmental level. It enabled learning about the specificity and the challenges of integrating ICTs into education, into food security, into media freedom. So I think that was a powerful structural element of YSYS that created opportunity for civil society from grassroots implementation level to policy advocacy level. I think what has also been incredibly powerful has been the opportunity to work in partnership with other stakeholders. This is a partnership that’s not always easy, it’s not always smooth, but it’s a partnership that’s beneficial to civil society and we believe to other stakeholders as well. I think the other progress that has taken place since YSYS is a deeper understanding of what is meant by the YSYS principles of being human rights-centered, people-centered development that’s human rights-oriented and the body of work that has been done by UN agencies, by the Office of the High Commission on Human Rights, by UNESCO, in understanding how human rights apply has been work that civil society has been instrumental in and has also been able to use to hold states and corporations accountable. I think what has not been good and what we feel is concerning is that there’s a shift from the WSIS focus on people-centeredness and development to a focus on digital. Now we use the term, the global digital compact, digital cooperation. It’s as if people, humans, institutions are a little bit in the background. The other real concern is that digital inequality persists and I think the minister from Nigeria has put this very well. We cannot stop at looking at the fact that billions of people are connected. If that connection is not meaningful, if it doesn’t enable meaningful, effective participation in the information society, it actually can result in the digital inequality gap getting wider as there’s more sophisticated and expansive application of ICTs in everyday lives. Those people who are not effectively connected are even more excluded than they would have been. The other concern, and I think the role of the private sector is obviously critical, but we also have to confront the fact that there’s been so much concentration of ownership and control in relatively few big global companies. And this presents challenges for developing countries who are trying to diversify dynamic ICT markets at home that are inclusive, that include from small to large business investments. I think going forward really, I really like the idea of versus plus 30. I think that should be a mantra. I think we have to put people first. We have to invest in digital equality, equality within countries, but also between countries. And we have to acknowledge failure. We have not succeeded to the extent that we wanted to at the end of 2003 in particular. And we have to confront new challenges such as climate change. And then finally, we have to harness the opportunity presented by the Global Digital Compact and the Summit of the Future to not fragment the efforts of the WSIS agencies and of the broader WSIS community, including the Internet Governance Forum and its national and regional IGFs, but rather to strengthen those initiatives and focus it more and integrate WSIS and SDGs as it should have been from the outset.

Tomas Lamanauskas:
So thank you very much, Anne-Marie. And thank you very much of highlighting this spirit of partnership that WSIS community and WSIS process was known for. I think today in global environment, it’s very much needed. So probably it’s something a lot to learn from, even if you show, and even in your speech today, demonstrate some tensions that still exist between different stakeholder groups, indeed. And of course, thank you for highlighting that importance of bringing people back into the center, or at least, or hopefully keeping them in the center. And also I think sometimes words do matter when we use, so how we use that as well. And of course, the final, I think, Thomas, you’re the winner of this panel with the WSIS plus 30 mantra. I think we’ll kind of, this is something that we probably will pick up further as well. So I think indeed, I think it’s important to look at the future. So ladies and gentlemen, indeed, just in closing, I’m sorry for the panelists to putting just in a quick fire remarks and not giving much time to respond. I think it will be a lot of time to discussing this five days. So indeed, ladies and gentlemen, two decades of WSIS have exemplified the crucial cooperation action. The WSIS forum over the years, over 15 years actually, has attracted over 120,000 participants from 160 countries, both in person and virtually. We’re also proud that we improved gender balance, which is also important aspect in these global events, from less than 30% of women in 2003 to 45% of women last year. And we hope that the figures, the registration figures and participation figures when we see it this year, will bring us even closer to the equality. 234 WSIS prize winners have put WSIS ambition in practice. The WSIS stock taking database tracks over 13,000 digital projects aligned with the ZGs. We have also cemented the multi-stakeholder model in both the WSIS forum and the Internet of Governance forum and brought specialized agencies together, United Nations Group on Information Society. Our process has evolved with the emergence of new technologies, artificial intelligence, especially has stunned the world with its potential for good, just as it has unearthed anxiety about its risks. The AI for Good Summit later this week explores how AI can help achieve ZGs. On Wednesday, it kicks off with our first AI Governance Day, focused on shifting from principles to practice. And we believe this makes also a fitting compliment to WSIS Plus 20. Friends, WSIS outcomes will be a vital ingredient at the UN Summit of the Future in September, and both in harnessing multi-stakeholder energy for shaping the global digital compact and in offering a powerful implementation platform. For this, the WSIS process must, and it has proven that it can, keep evolving to meet future needs. Actually, it must keep being evolved and developed by all of us, us meaning WSIS community. So thank you with that, and thank you panelists for this great start to today. And thank you everyone, and we’ll continue the event. Thank you very much.